Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks: IU belongs on everyone's ballot

Posted on: February 20, 2012 6:27 pm
Edited on: February 20, 2012 6:32 pm
  •  
 
By Gary Parrish

Did you include Indiana on your Top 25 ballot?

If so, you're cool.

If not, you're Poll Attacked.

Associated Press poll: Indiana's loss at Iowa was bad. No denying that. But should it have been enough for some voters to omit the Hoosiers from their ballots? Absolutely not. And yet 15 AP voters -- including my pals Seth Davis and Dick Vitale -- left Indiana off their ballots, which is confusing because there's no way to conclude Tom Crean's team doesn't have one of the nation's best 25 bodies of work. They own wins over No. 1 Kentucky, No. 8 Ohio State, No. 11 Michigan, No. 20 Notre Dame and NCAA hopefuls Purdue, Northwestern and North Carolina State. Meantime, four of their seven losses are to teams currently ranked in the top 16. So they really only have three bad losses.

Iowa was one of them.

Again, that's an undeniable statement.

But almost everybody outside of the top 15 has at least three bad losses, and almost nobody outside of the top 15 owns the wins Indiana owns. Bottom line, what happened here is what happens too often in college basketball, i.e., a total overreaction based on the outcome of one 40-minute game that happens to be the most recent thing we've seen. The Iowa loss cost Indiana a few spots in our Top 25 (and one), as it should've. But it should not have cost the Hoosiers as much as some voters made it cost them. They're 15th at KenPom.com and 19th at CollegeRPI.com, and I think that's about right. They belong in the 15-to-20 range. Any formula suggesting otherwise is a bad formula. Any ballot suggesting otherwise is a bad ballot.

Coaches poll: I like Saint Mary's and think the Gaels will be a tough out in the NCAA Tournament. But that doesn't mean they should be ranked 23rd in the latest coaches poll. Or 24th. Or 25th. Or at all. Saint Mary's is 23-5 against a schedule that ranks 108th at CollegeRPI.com and 185th at KenPom.com and features two non-Division I opponents. The Gaels have three losses to unranked opponents. They are 0-2 against currently ranked opponents, and both of those losses (to Baylor and Murray State) came by double-digits.

Are they playing well now?

No.

They've dropped three of their past four.

Are they healthy?

No.

Both starting guards are hobbled.

So there is literally nothing tangible on which to base SMC's ranking. The Gaels might well win the WCC title, and that'll be a nice accomplishment. But at this moment, as I type, they're just a banged-up team lacking quality victories that's lost three of their past four games. The coaches voting for them must be the same coaches who are still voting for Mississippi State -- that SEC outfit that's dropped three straight to unranked opponents.
  •  
Comments

Since: Oct 7, 2006
Posted on: February 21, 2012 5:01 pm
 

The Poll Attacks: IU belongs on everyone's ballot




Hey Confused_au, I didn't pick up that you're an Aussie at first.

Was he typing in an Australian accent?
Ha, funny. Well, he might have been, but I[m not that perceptive. But this comment:

kajcuse, Thanks mate, appreciate the comment.
plus the username, Confused _au tipped me off because .au is an Australia URL, that's all. Could be wrong, but I'm not.



Since: Oct 20, 2008
Posted on: February 21, 2012 4:38 pm
 

The Poll Attacks: IU belongs on everyone's ballot

Hey Confused_au, I didn't pick up that you're an Aussie at first.
Was he typing in an Australian accent?



Since: Oct 7, 2006
Posted on: February 21, 2012 4:03 pm
 

The Poll Attacks: IU belongs on everyone's ballot

Hey Confused_au, I didn't pick up that you're an Aussie at first. That might explain your apparent knowledge of New Mexico basketball, and the Mountain West in general, because true freshman point guard Hugh Greenwood and reserve big man Cameron Bairstow are both recruited from there, as was Luc Longley, the Chicago Bulls big man during the Michael Jordan championship years. Send some more over, will ya?




Since: Oct 20, 2008
Posted on: February 21, 2012 3:20 pm
 

The Poll Attacks: IU belongs on everyone's ballot

 And yet 15 AP voters -- including my pals and -- left Indiana off their ballots, which is confusing because there's no way to conclude Tom Crean's team doesn't have one of the nation's best 25 bodies of work.
Not everyone votes based on body of work.  They vote based on how the team is playing right now.  If everyone voted on body of work, Murray State wouldn't have a single vote.



Since: Oct 7, 2006
Posted on: February 21, 2012 3:06 pm
 

The Poll Attacks: IU belongs on everyone's ballot

Great analysis, Confused_au. Couldn't have said it better myself.



Since: Nov 18, 2011
Posted on: February 21, 2012 2:55 pm
 

The Poll Attacks: IU belongs on everyone's ballot

NOT ANY SEVEN LOSS TEAM IS NOT TOP 26  GARY   SEVEN LOSSES
LET"S BE FAIR AND NOT BIASED   LET"S RANK ON RECORDS ONLY SOS MEANS NOTHING JUST A WAY TO KEEP THE MONEY IN THE BIG SCHOOLS POCKETS..  NO1 knows who #1 thru 26 is GARY. Pick 100 people tell em to pick top 26 lol. It's called discrimination GARY

HERE"S THE WAY IT IS WITH NO BIAS:

1. TIE SYRACUSE KENTUCKY MURRAY STATE     
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;  ONE LOSS TEAMS
4. MISSOURI    &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;     TWO LOSS TEAM
5. HARVARD    &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      THREE LOSS TEAM
6. TIE: UNC DUKE NEW MEXICO   MIDDLE TENN  WAGNER  AND WEBER STATE     
  FOUR LOSSS TEAMS
11. TIE   ALL 5 LOSS TEAMS  MICH ST IS HERE ALONG WITH KANSAS ETC
 and then all the 6 loss teams   WOW
I GUESS ALL THE SEVEN LOSS TEAMS ARE NOW WHERE THEY BELONG ranked over 30th

Get the point GARY ..the young men on all the teams you dont have ranked that should be wonder what is going on...but they know it is a RIGGED deck  with MAJOR CONFERENCE MONEY CONTROLLING ALL WHICH IS UNFAIR

HEY GARY:  Where are all the BIG10 SCHOOLS  WOW  not 1 in top10

GARY: REMEMBER DAVIDSON you NEVER RANKED THEM TILL NCAA TIME  you are one BIG10 BIGOT



Since: Nov 29, 2010
Posted on: February 21, 2012 7:30 am
 

The Poll Attacks: IU belongs on everyone's ballot

You're right Renn34, IU's wins are a little more impressive than Louisville's. That being said, they also have three bad losses to Minnesota, Nebraska and Iowa. The committee will recognize this. Plus, 8-7 in the Big Ten isn't something to be proud of either. I feel Tom Crean is an awesome coach and is getting this program where it deserves to be: back on the national radar screen. Basketball is so much better when Indiana is playing well. It just seems right to have IU tourney bound each and every year.



Since: Feb 20, 2012
Posted on: February 20, 2012 10:49 pm
 

The Poll Attacks: IU belongs on everyone's ballot

How about those Irish.  Can't forget the early season according to you Gary can we?

8 losses including, 4 Bad losses. 5 to teams in the bottom half of their conference, that is a losing record. One of the good losses is to Gonzaga, likely to  to be a double figure seed. 

I highlight this to show that early games should be more limited in importance, if the team displays consistency for large stretches thereafter.  But using your approach, they're a 20-25 ranked team at best.

I personally have no problem with Notre Dame as a 5 seed, but only at best. Their record says to me that's it. Win out and youre a 4 seed, loose a couple and you drop.  They wont be 'Cuse so they wont win out.




Since: Feb 20, 2012
Posted on: February 20, 2012 10:39 pm
 

The Poll Attacks: IU belongs on everyone's ballot

kajcuse, Thanks mate, appreciate the comment.

It might be worth noting, I personally would have SDSU unranked and would thereby diminiss the Lobos ranking. SAy around 18 rather than actually near Ohio State & Kansas, they were simply there as an example. 

Gary,

Further I cant have Michigan above Marquette.  Michigan has a dismal Away / Neutral record for a 3 seed (5 - 7) by your ranking, compared to Marquette (9 - 4). 

Michigan's only Top 50 Away/Neutral win is Memphis, whose also lost to UTEP at home. UTEP's not that bad but they're not that good either. Just an average team that shouldn't win in Memphis.

Marquette has 2 Top 50 RPI away wins, a better Away/Neutral record, better RPI, and better Kenpom.  So it's not even close. 

Let's do Indiana. 

5 - 6 Away / Neural record.  No Away Top 50 RPI wins, 1 Neutral win. 3 Bad losses (according to your methodology) including 1 at home. 4 ranked wins (none away & 1 neutral) & 4 ranked losses (all away) from a power conference. This reads like a 5-7 seed that gets upset in the first round. I's suspect by the likes of an Oral Roberts type team.

 
As a last comment on New Mexico, their conference RPI is 4.  So from what I can tell since mid-January they're the 4th best team in the country. I'd put as a 5 seed, winning out in conference, with a loss in the MWC tourney or a 4 seed winning out.  That'd be an away/neutral record of 14-3 or 15-2.  Only comparable teams would be Syracuse & Kentucky, albeit far less wins, they'll be definite 1 seeds as at today looking forward. 







Since: Feb 7, 2011
Posted on: February 20, 2012 9:51 pm
 

The Poll Attacks: IU belongs on everyone's ballot

Dude, Confused, that is some legit analysis.

Unfortuntely, Parrish only follows his logic when it's convenient for him. He's been hating on New Mexico for months, so he hates admitting when he was wrong. Also, he's fallen into another common fallacy, which is that if a team wasn't ranked one week, there's no way it should be ranked very high the next, regardless of worth. Parrish always bashed others for sticking to their pre-conceived notions of teams, not actually looking at results. Yet he clearly does it himself.

Anyway, solid analisys. You probably deserve Parrish's pay check this week. 


The views expressed in this blog are solely those of the author and do not reflect the views of CBS Sports or CBSSports.com