Join the "Heat Haters" club now!

How wonderful. And now the Lakers have their Gang of Four, and teams like the Magic and others are left twisting in the wind, and everyone wonders how it got like this...

how it got like this?   anyone wondering that has not been following basketball very long.   Super teams of 3 superstars have been around for a long long long time.   Come on laker nation.. Worth, Magic, Kareem ring any bells?   Jordan, Pippen, Grant/Rodman.    Duncan, Ginobli, Parker.   Bird, Mchale, Parrish.  

Basketball has been this way forever.  nothing new is going on.   The thing that sticks in your craw, is teams like Miami are now invited to the party.   This use to be mainly a Laker/Celtics thing.  

the Lakers now have 4.  congrats.  still just one ball.  Danny Ainge was on the 80s C's teams, Rondo was there with the big 3 in Boston.   Teams like this have been around for a long time in basketball.

the lakers are now elite.  congrats.  get through the west, and then i will worry about LA.   until then.....

RAISE THE BANNER!!! 



MIAMI Heat 2012 NBA CHAMPIONS

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Super teams of 3 superstars have been around for a long long long time.   Come on laker nation.. Worth, Magic, Kareem ring any bells?   Jordan, Pippen, Grant/Rodman.    Duncan, Ginobli, Parker.   Bird, Mchale, Parrish.

flauge, only difference is that those teams were built and developed over time...one piece at a time.  None of those trios decided to all get together and hop on the bus at the same time. 

Basketball has been this way forever.  nothing new is going on.

um, not really, sadly, that kind of "flocking" is an entirely new phenomenon. 

The thing that sticks in your craw, is teams like Miami are now invited to the party.

There is no team like Miami and, for the record, nobody invited them to the party - they crashed it all by themselves.

This use to be mainly a Laker/Celtics thing.

Hate to break it to you, but it still is mainly a Laker/Celtics thing, you just lack the proper perspective to totally fathom that reality.

the Lakers are now elite.  congrats.

Other way around, son...the Lakers have always been elite.  It's your Heatles that are only now getting a taste of what it feels like to be an elite team in this league.  Enjoy it while it lasts, 'cause it ain't gonna last long!

One And Done!

RAISE THE BANNER

"How wonderful.  And now the Lakers have their Gang of Four, and teams like the Magic and others are left twisting in the wind, and everyone wonders how it got like this...  "

It got like this by some teams sucking at the business of basketball while others succeed. The business of basketball is even more important than the game of basketball and there have been have's and have nots in the business since the inception of the very first professional basketball league. There have ALWAYS been teams that have sucked at the business.

Orlando sucked at the business of basketball long before they traded away Dwight Howard for a pile of garbage. They have ALWAYS managed to screw up, despite having some of the most talented NBA players pass through Orlando.

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orst-trades-orlando-magic-history-f
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]

It doesn't matter that he was still "pulling crazy trades the week before the July 1 deadline" in order to get it done, the point is that he was going to get it done, no matter what it took, and therefore it was a fait accompli that they'd all be there to sign on the dotted line when they officially became "free".

All you have managed to do is to paint Pat Riley as a determined executive who set his goals and accomplished them. To my knowledge, he is the only player to win an NCAA Title and NBA Titles as a player, coach and executive. The guy knows winning basketball and how to get it. So hang on to your silly notion that something illegal or unjust must have happened for these players to all decide that being teammates in one of the most desirable cities in the NBA with a good supporting cast, a proven winner in the front office and an excellent defenseive coach on the sidelines would give the ability to reach their goals.

You are perfectly OK with your Lakers amassing talent at the expense of small market teams but are bent out of shape for any other team to do the same. If you can't laugh at how hypocritical that is, at least find comfort in knowing that everyone else is laughing at you.

"Bird, Mchale, Parrish.   "

Dennis Johnson was also a Hall of Famer. That makes FOUR Hall of Famers for the early 80s Celtics. Who are the four for Miami? Bosh? Ha, ha, very funny. James, Wade and MAYBE Allen, who they are picking up at the non Hall of Fame caliber end of his career.

"flauge, only difference is that those teams were built and developed over time...one piece at a time.  None of those trios decided to all get together and hop on the bus at the same time.  "

SO WHAT?!? And by the way, Parish and McHale joined the team in Bird's second year in what would be called one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history.

"There is no team like Miami and, for the record, nobody invited them to the party - they crashed it all by themselves."

Your "old money" mentality is showing, jefe. You're basically pissed that Miami didn't EARN their way to a powerful roster over the decades by selectively SUCKING in years to get great draft picks and stealing players and picks in obscenely lopsided trades like Boston and LA have done. Sorry, Mr. Old Guard, but there's more than one way to do business these days, whether you like it or not.

"Other way around, son...the Lakers have always been elite.  It's your Heatles that are only now getting a taste of what it feels like to be an elite team in this league.  Enjoy it while it lasts, 'cause it ain't gonna last long!"

Like I said, it's abundantly clear that the newbies on the block aren't welcome. I fight the same issue as you in my college basketball fandom. I think that the mid-major programs should have to build their programs with a steady diet of road games against elite, established teams before they earn the right to be considered great programs. Once they are there, THEN they can start demanding home and home series with the big boys and prime time tv slots and pounding their chest like they belong.

Things move at a faster pace these days. The "I Want It Now" mentality of owners and fans simply does not allow for the gradual approach to team building. If people want to keep their jobs and their fanbase, they have to speed up the process with more agressive, riskier moves. The estabished teams with built in advantages do not need to take such drastic measures and can continue business as usual, but it is easier for the smaller teams to jump into the fray. It is also HARDER for them to STAY relevant once they get their because they do not have the established base of history and tradition to support them long term.

Have faith Lakers fans. The "little guys" may burn brighter for a few years, but they will fade away soon enough. Wade is already nearing the end of the line. I wouldn't be surprised to see him continue to break down over the next three years. James has a solid 7 years of greatness ahead of him, barring injury so you'll have to deal with him for a while. Bosh? Meh...

All you have managed to do is to paint Pat Riley as a determined executive who set his goals and accomplished them. To my knowledge, he is the only player to win an NCAA Title and NBA Titles as a player, coach and executive. The guy knows winning basketball and how to get it. So hang on to your silly notion that something illegal or unjust must have happened for these players to all decide that being teammates in one of the most desirable cities in the NBA with a good supporting cast, a proven winner in the front office and an excellent defenseive coach on the sidelines would give the ability to reach their goals.

Your "old money" mentality is showing, jefe. You're basically pissed that Miami didn't EARN their way to a powerful roster over the decades by selectively SUCKING in years to get great draft picks and stealing players and picks in obscenely lopsided trades like Boston and LA have done. Sorry, Mr. Old Guard, but there's more than one way to do business these days, whether you like it or not.

Things move at a faster pace these days. The "I Want It Now" mentality of owners and fans simply does not allow for the gradual approach to team building. If people want to keep their jobs and their fanbase, they have to speed up the process with more agressive, riskier moves.

twocoach - I totally concede that Riley and the Miami Heat are representative of this "new guard" mentality and that there is a huge generational gap in terms of the mindet that separates the "old guard" and those ways of doing business, like it or not, from this "forward thinking", cutting corners approach, which BTW is only being exhibited the Heat.  Mind you the success that the Oklahoma City Thunder are currently enjoying has also come by way of building a winning program through a smart front office, good draft picks and a well placed trade/acquisition or two over time, not unlike the business model exhibited by what you would call "old guard" teams.

But here's the thing - my argument, and what I'm rallying against (and it's not that I'm "pissed" about it, it's just something I find distasteful) is that there was ZERO RISK associated with the Heat's aggressive plan.  Riley had a plan alright, but the only way the plan was going to succeed was to ensure that ALL THREE FA's - your precious "Three Kings" - ended up signing...and that, my friend, is where the collusion comes in.

I know it can't be proved, I understand that to you this is nothing more than a tin-foil-hat conspiracy theory, but hey, it's what I believe to be true,

Regardless, you are correct with the final thought from your trip of posts today...

The "little guys" may burn brighter for a few years, but they will fade away soon enough. Wade is already nearing the end of the line. I wouldn't be surprised to see him continue to break down over the next three years. James has a solid 7 years of greatness ahead of him, barring injury so you'll have to deal with him for a while. Bosh? Meh...

So, yes Heat Lovers, have fun raising your * banner, and whoop it up while you can, 'cause it ain't gonna last...in fact, you're not repeating, so good luck with your future because the kind of lightning that Riley sparked in forming "Yes.We.Did" never strikes twice.

flauge, only difference is that those teams were built and developed over time...one piece at a time. None of those trios decided to all get together and hop on the bus at the same time.

What about the big 3 Celtics?   Ray Allen, KG, Paul Pierce?   How about the 2003-04 Lakers?   GP, Karl Malone?   Come on man.   This is not new.  It's been going on for at least a decade.   

Hate to break it to you, but it still is mainly a Laker/Celtics thing, you just lack the proper perspective to totally fathom that reality.

Not really man.   The Celtics have 1 title in the last 24 years or so.  Since the Heat came into the league..    To put things in proper perspective to you, Miami has more titles since they came into existence in 1988-1989 than Boston has.   That's the reality of it.





RAISE THE BANNER!!!

SO WHAT?!? And by the way, Parish and McHale joined the team in Bird's second year in what would be called one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history.

good point on the parrish and mchale trade.  so this has been going on since the ealry 80s.  jefe is just mad miami got in on the game. 


but i agree with two coach, miami's run will be over soon enough.   2017-2018 or so.   we are just going to rattle off 5 or so.. then we will be finished with the league for a bit, you can have it back then.

What about the big 3 Celtics?   Ray Allen, KG, Paul Pierce?   How about the 2003-04 Lakers?   GP, Karl Malone?   Come on man.   This is not new.  It's been going on for at least a decade.   

Flauge, you and twocoache are missing the point if you think Jefe is just talking about star players ending up on a team with each other, which appears obvious with the laundry list of big 3s and 4s that you keep listing to dispel his argument.

It's HOW they came about  is what matters.   And the mere fact that they are future HOF or former all-stars is not the point.

KG was signed to Boston after the Paul Allen trade and KG had earlier refused the trade to Boston during that negotiation period.  Scenario is not what Jefe is decribing, nor is the Karl Malone, Gary Payton signing by the Lakers. 

Not really man.   The Celtics have 1 title in the last 24 years or so.  Since the Heat came into the league..    To put things in proper perspective to you, Miami has more titles since they came into existence in 1988-1989 than Boston has.   That's the reality of it.

You obviously don't know what the Laker/Celtic thing is if you think that the Heat's two championships in 24 years has put the Heat is the same category as the Lakers and Celtics.  The Spurs 4 championships haven't done it.

You obviously don't know what the Laker/Celtic thing is if you think that the Heat's two championships in 24 years has put the Heat is the same category as the Lakers and Celtics.  The Spurs 4 championships haven't done it.

Think you're missing Flauge point....Not once did he ever say anything about the Heat being in the same category as the Lakers/Celtics in a historical perspective. However Flauge point is that since the Heat came in the NBA, they have been more successful than Boston in the 24 years that we've been in the NBA....What is so hard to understand?

It's HOW they came about is what matters. And the mere fact that they are future HOF or former all-stars is not the point.

KG was signed to Boston after the Paul Allen trade and KG had earlier refused the trade to Boston during that negotiation period. Scenario is not what Jefe is decribing, nor is the Karl Malone, Gary Payton signing by the Lakers.

So KG refused to be traded to Boston when he thought they sucked...But once the loaded up on enough talent he was cool with it.   Yea, that is totally in a different ball park than what miami did.   wow.

You obviously don't know what the Laker/Celtic thing is if you think that the Heat's two championships in 24 years has put the Heat is the same category as the Lakers and Celtics. The Spurs 4 championships haven't done it.

you obviously are having a problem reading.   i never said miami was in the same category as LA.  I said they had more titles since the came into the league than Celtics.  That's a fact.  It's not disputable.   I understand the Lakers and Celtics.   But who cares.   Wow, you guys had a rivalry 50 years ago.   And then again in the 80s .. 30 years ago.   And int he past 5 years you split titles.    It's a rivalry.  Got it.   still doesnt changes the fact that since Miami came in the league the title count is Miami 2 Boston 1.    2 is more than 1.   Always has been.. always will be. 

And yes the Spurs have done it.   the Spurs are 4 to 1 over the Celtics since 1989.   Since miami came in the league the best teams have been Chicago, LA, and Spurs.   That's just the facts.   I know you wish it was 1982 again... or maybe the early 60s.. but it's not.   

The Celtics have 1 title in the last 24 years or so.  Since the Heat came into the league..    To put things in proper perspective to you, Miami has more titles since they came into existence in 1988-1989 than Boston has.   That's the reality of it.

See flauge. the problem here is that you're trying to have your cake, and eat it too.  You can't cite "putting things into the proper perspective" and then try to qualify it by using the Heat's inception date as a starting point...these are two wildly different concepts.

The whole point here is that the "proper perspective" involves a much larger universe and timeline.  I hate to break it to you, but the world does not revolve around the Miami Heat.  Quite the opposite.  In the bigger scheme of things, the Heat are but a tiny blip on the much larger landscape of life in the NBA.  That's why when we talk about "a Lakers/Celtics thing", we're talking about a much bigger frame of reference.  And, when I say, "guess what, it's still a Lakers/Celtics thing", I mean nothing's really changed, in spite of what you might think based on your stunted, hopelessly myopic point of view.

To quote the Talking Heads..."same as it ever was"...

jefe is just mad miami got in on the game.

Jefe is not mad...Jefe considers the Heat (and their ponderous fans) nothing more than an irritant, a pesky little housefly that will get its comeuppance sooner than later.

but i agree with two coach, miami's run will be over soon enough.   2017-2018 or so.   we are just going to rattle off 5 or so.. then we will be finished with the league for a bit, you can have it back then.

ROTFLMAO!!!  flauge, you've got to be kidding with this, right???  If you honestly think the Heat are going to "rattle off 5 or so" titles within the next 5-6 seasons, I've got some real estate I'd like to sell to you!

You obviously don't know what the Laker/Celtic thing is if you think that the Heat's two championships in 24 years has put the Heat is the same category as the Lakers and Celtics.  The Spurs 4 championships haven't done it.

Think you're missing Flauge point....Not once did he ever say anything about the Heat being in the same category as the Lakers/Celtics in a historical perspective. However Flauge point is that since the Heat came in the NBA, they have been more successful than Boston in the 24 years that we've been in the NBA....What is so hard to understand?

The only thing that might be hard for some people to understand, punchline, is how unbelievably stupid Heat fans are, and how incredibly limited their comprehensional bandwith seems to be.

Nothing is stupid about saying Miami been more successful than Boston since the Heat came in the NBA? Hey retard you do know 2 is more than 1 right?

The Heat have won 2 titles to Boston 1 and the Heat have won 3 Eastern Conference titles while Boston won 2.

The numbers proves that the Heat have been better than Boston since they came into the league in the 1988-1989 season.

Facts don't lie son

Nothing is stupid about saying Miami been more successful than Boston since the Heat came in the NBA? Hey retard you do know 2 is more than 1 right?

It's stupid because your lame excuse for a frame of reference is beyond idiotic, especially in light of the overarching discussion.  You do know that the NBA - specifically this idea of "a Lakers/Celtics thing" - predates the existence of the Miami Heat, right?

Facts don't lie son

And, in certain parts of the animal kingdom, parents eat their young...and now you know why.

"It's stupid because your lame excuse for a frame of reference is beyond idiotic, especially in light of the overarching discussion.  You do know that the NBA - specifically this idea of "a Lakers/Celtics thing" - predates the existence of the Miami Heat, right?"




I am not going to back read the previous 10+ days of posts but it is easy to see where we are.


Are you still preaching history lessons? 

I"ll bet 3-4 years ago when the Lakers were current champs that you weren't talking about what happened 20, 30, 50+ years ago.

Do you feel that going back in history in any way lessons the fact that the Heat are the current champs, the team everyone currently wants to watch as well as the current favorite to repeat?

 Wasn't Ray Allen part of that "Celtics thing"?  Seems like he now wants to be part of the current 'Heat thing'.  So much so that he signed up @ a 50% discount. TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

Yes, we all know and understand that the Lakers will usually be in a position to be contenders because of location, income, etc,. However, you can add the Heat to the short list of desirable locations going forward who most years will be in that same position.  

South Beach isn't going anywere, no state taxes isn't going anywhere, and HOPEFULLY for the next better part of  a decade, the best player in the world won't be going anywhere.


Now that the Lakers FA dust has settled, yes, IMO you have improved, but so did Ok. City and the Heat.

Before you say Ok City is the same team, I will tell you they are not. They went through alot of growing pains last year and the Finals loss to the Heat will weigh on their minds in the exact same way that the Heats loss to Dallas did the previous year.


As far as your Lakers,  IMO you have a 1 year window with this roster as is. NO owner is or will be looking to write a 150M luxury tax check. Say goodbye to Gasol. As a fan, yes, you should be happy that he is still there, but let's remember the only reason he is still there is because the other teams involved DIDN'T want him. Hell, for the most part, they didn't want Bynum.


As far as Kobe, you have a 2 year window UNLESS he is willling to play with maybe a 70%? or so pay cut. That isn't happening.


       

    


          

     



        

"Yes, we all know and understand that the Lakers will usually be in a position to be contenders because of location, income, etc,. However, you can add the Heat to the short list of desirable locations going forward who most years will be in that same position. 

South Beach isn't going anywere, no state taxes isn't going anywhere, and HOPEFULLY for the next better part of  a decade, the best player in the world won't be going anywhere."




oh mur-der. here we go AGAIN...     

DO put away your pom-poms, girl friend...     


"Now that the Lakers FA dust has settled, yes, IMO you have improved, but so did Ok. City and the Heat."


so YOU say. we'll know soon enough...   

"Before you say Ok City is the same team, I will tell you they are not. They went through alot of growing pains last year and the Finals loss to the Heat will weigh on their minds in the exact same way that the Heats loss to Dallas did the previous year."



that all depends on how big this team's heart is. once again, we'll see... 


either way, it isn't like we should be scared of 'em...  

   

"As far as your Lakers,  IMO you have a 1 year window with this roster as is. NO owner is or will be looking to write a 150M luxury tax check. Say goodbye to Gasol. As a fan, yes, you should be happy that he is still there, but let's remember the only reason he is still there is because the other teams involved DIDN'T want him. Hell, for the most part, they didn't want Bynum."



aren't you the same guy that said "the Lakers have no tradeable assets", the Lakers won't find trading partners for certain players", etc, etc, etc? yeah, a lot of what the Lakers do hinges on YOUR words. LMAO!!! TOO funny. you sure worry an AWFUL lot about what moves the Lakers are gonna make...   

   
"As far as Kobe, you have a 2 year window UNLESS he is willling to play with maybe a 70%? or so pay cut. That isn't happening."



have no worries, Turnip. the Lakers will be fine for now AND the future. after all, we STILL have Mitch. all good here in L.A....


















CL67